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	<title>Comments on: The Future of WestLaw &#8211; a First Glimpse (Plus Update 1)</title>
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	<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/</link>
	<description>Canada&#039;s online legal magazine</description>
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		<title>By: Joshua Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-728871</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 18:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slaw.ca/?p=16873#comment-728871</guid>
		<description>The problem with the fee and second-city legal searches are that they are date-limited.  You generally can&#039;t find cases older than about 1870.  That&#039;s fine for some work, but not state or federal constitutional issues, research in jurisdictions with limited jurisprudence, and almost all common law issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with the fee and second-city legal searches are that they are date-limited.  You generally can&#039;t find cases older than about 1870.  That&#039;s fine for some work, but not state or federal constitutional issues, research in jurisdictions with limited jurisprudence, and almost all common law issues.</p>
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		<title>By: Connie Crosby</title>
		<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-716221</link>
		<dc:creator>Connie Crosby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 03:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slaw.ca/?p=16873#comment-716221</guid>
		<description>The big launch took place today at LegalTech in NY. In the meantime, selected law librarians across the U.S. reportedly received some nice swag. And for some reason I was included--see &lt;a href=&quot;http://bit.ly/9MtUVM&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my video&lt;/a&gt; in which I open the promo package that was couriered to me, and discuss my mixed feelings on receiving it. Sarah Glassmeyer also discusses it on her blog in the post &lt;a href=&quot;http://sarahglassmeyer.com/?p=336&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;On Vendor Swag&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big launch took place today at LegalTech in NY. In the meantime, selected law librarians across the U.S. reportedly received some nice swag. And for some reason I was included&#8211;see <a href="http://bit.ly/9MtUVM">my video</a> in which I open the promo package that was couriered to me, and discuss my mixed feelings on receiving it. Sarah Glassmeyer also discusses it on her blog in the post <a href="http://sarahglassmeyer.com/?p=336">On Vendor Swag</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Carolyn Elefant</title>
		<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-716187</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolyn Elefant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Jan 2010 13:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slaw.ca/?p=16873#comment-716187</guid>
		<description>Simon,

I posted my summary (http://tinyurl.com/y9q4fj7) late, so I realize that you did not see it when you posted.  I agree that for the first category of search - the &quot;get me the Supreme Court case on preemption,&quot; free tools may be all you need (check out the new FastCase iphone app as well).  Unfortunately, as a regulatory attorney, I find myself a captive buyer of for-fee legal research because neither Google nor the &quot;second city&quot; providers (FastCase, Casemaker, Versuslaw) cover decisions of federal and state agencies.  When I ran regulatory searches on WestLawNext, the relevant cases did come up but I had to sort through an enormous amount of extraneous material to get to them - and I can&#039;t figure out an easy way to limit my searches to just a few libraries rather than all versus none.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon,</p>
<p>I posted my summary (<a href="http://tinyurl.com/y9q4fj7">http://tinyurl.com/y9q4fj7</a>) late, so I realize that you did not see it when you posted.  I agree that for the first category of search &#8211; the &#034;get me the Supreme Court case on preemption,&#034; free tools may be all you need (check out the new FastCase iphone app as well).  Unfortunately, as a regulatory attorney, I find myself a captive buyer of for-fee legal research because neither Google nor the &#034;second city&#034; providers (FastCase, Casemaker, Versuslaw) cover decisions of federal and state agencies.  When I ran regulatory searches on WestLawNext, the relevant cases did come up but I had to sort through an enormous amount of extraneous material to get to them &#8211; and I can&#039;t figure out an easy way to limit my searches to just a few libraries rather than all versus none.</p>
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		<title>By: Annette Demers</title>
		<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-716121</link>
		<dc:creator>Annette Demers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jan 2010 04:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slaw.ca/?p=16873#comment-716121</guid>
		<description>From the perspective of one who teaches future lawyers, I&#039;d just like to add that I am continuously reminding my students of this simple fact:

&quot;The editors of Westlaw and CanLii have not sworn an oath to uphold the laws of Ontario; lawyers have.&quot;

In other words, these tools are never perfect.  We heavy users come across errors in their content on a daily basis.  Regardless of whether it is a free tool, or a fancy commercial tool, it&#039;s the lawyer&#039;s job to make sure they&#039;ve done their research thoroughly.  Thus, in the end, neither is &quot;good enough&quot;.  The only &quot;good enough&quot; is meticulous legal research conducted by a human being with an ethical obligation to properly inform the courts, their clients, and each other.  We should keep this in mind.

Also, on a lighter note! From a teaching perspective - I loathe system migrations! It mostly stems from the endless amount of explaining that law librarians have to do to help their patrons get up to speed with what the IT people are currently concocting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the perspective of one who teaches future lawyers, I&#039;d just like to add that I am continuously reminding my students of this simple fact:</p>
<p>&#034;The editors of Westlaw and CanLii have not sworn an oath to uphold the laws of Ontario; lawyers have.&#034;</p>
<p>In other words, these tools are never perfect.  We heavy users come across errors in their content on a daily basis.  Regardless of whether it is a free tool, or a fancy commercial tool, it&#039;s the lawyer&#039;s job to make sure they&#039;ve done their research thoroughly.  Thus, in the end, neither is &#034;good enough&#034;.  The only &#034;good enough&#034; is meticulous legal research conducted by a human being with an ethical obligation to properly inform the courts, their clients, and each other.  We should keep this in mind.</p>
<p>Also, on a lighter note! From a teaching perspective &#8211; I loathe system migrations! It mostly stems from the endless amount of explaining that law librarians have to do to help their patrons get up to speed with what the IT people are currently concocting!</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Chester</title>
		<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-716103</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slaw.ca/?p=16873#comment-716103</guid>
		<description>Lisa - some large corporate clients state up front in their retainer agreements that they will not pay for any legal research charges - others that they will not pay for flat-rated charges - on the basis that this is part of the firm&#039;s overhead.  Sometimes they even say they won&#039;t pay for time spent on legal research on the basis that they hire lawyers who should know this stuff.

If a partner gives a junior a research and then tells the junior that the research time and disbursements will be regarded as non-billable, this may affect the depth and quality of the research carried out.

I think for simple look-ups like &#039;get a copy of this statute or that Supreme Court case&#039;, that lawyers increasingly look to the free or discounted services.  Why the lawyer needs to know and how central an issue is to a matter will still steer research in particular directions.  

There is likely space for all these services.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lisa &#8211; some large corporate clients state up front in their retainer agreements that they will not pay for any legal research charges &#8211; others that they will not pay for flat-rated charges &#8211; on the basis that this is part of the firm&#039;s overhead.  Sometimes they even say they won&#039;t pay for time spent on legal research on the basis that they hire lawyers who should know this stuff.</p>
<p>If a partner gives a junior a research and then tells the junior that the research time and disbursements will be regarded as non-billable, this may affect the depth and quality of the research carried out.</p>
<p>I think for simple look-ups like &#039;get a copy of this statute or that Supreme Court case&#039;, that lawyers increasingly look to the free or discounted services.  Why the lawyer needs to know and how central an issue is to a matter will still steer research in particular directions.  </p>
<p>There is likely space for all these services.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Solomon</title>
		<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-716098</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Solomon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 16:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slaw.ca/?p=16873#comment-716098</guid>
		<description>Simon, your comment that &quot;the free Google Scholar service might be all that some clients are prepared to pay for,&quot; gives me pause. I&#039;m not sure if your reference to &quot;clients&quot; means West&#039;s clients (i.e., their lawyer-customers) or the clients who those lawyers are representing (who I&#039;ll refer to as Clients with a capital &quot;C&quot;).

In my experience, lawyers do not consult with their Clients concerning which legal research tool they should use, just as surgeons don&#039;t ask their patients which scalpels they should use. This is as it should be, of course, as the vast majority of Clients are not qualified to make that judgment call. Moreover, the whole free vs. pay issue is relevant only to Clients whose lawyers are employing cost recovery (&lt;a href=&quot;http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-cost-of-your-online-legal-research-subscription-is-your-overhead%E2%80%94dont-pass-it-through-to-your-clients/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;which I&#039;ve previously decried&lt;/a&gt;).

If you meant that Google Scholar might be all that some lawyers are prepared to pay for, that raises the thorny issue of whether the free research tools really are &quot;good enough.&quot; I suspect that the first malpractice case against a free-tools-using lawyer who missed relevant authority that he or she would have found using one of the pay services may answer that question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Simon, your comment that &#034;the free Google Scholar service might be all that some clients are prepared to pay for,&#034; gives me pause. I&#039;m not sure if your reference to &#034;clients&#034; means West&#039;s clients (i.e., their lawyer-customers) or the clients who those lawyers are representing (who I&#039;ll refer to as Clients with a capital &#034;C&#034;).</p>
<p>In my experience, lawyers do not consult with their Clients concerning which legal research tool they should use, just as surgeons don&#039;t ask their patients which scalpels they should use. This is as it should be, of course, as the vast majority of Clients are not qualified to make that judgment call. Moreover, the whole free vs. pay issue is relevant only to Clients whose lawyers are employing cost recovery (<a href="http://legalresearchandwritingpro.com/blog/2009/05/10/the-cost-of-your-online-legal-research-subscription-is-your-overhead%E2%80%94dont-pass-it-through-to-your-clients/">which I&#039;ve previously decried</a>).</p>
<p>If you meant that Google Scholar might be all that some lawyers are prepared to pay for, that raises the thorny issue of whether the free research tools really are &#034;good enough.&#034; I suspect that the first malpractice case against a free-tools-using lawyer who missed relevant authority that he or she would have found using one of the pay services may answer that question.</p>
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		<title>By: Connie Crosby</title>
		<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-716088</link>
		<dc:creator>Connie Crosby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 07:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slaw.ca/?p=16873#comment-716088</guid>
		<description>Well done, Simon. Thank you for keeping us ahead of the curve!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done, Simon. Thank you for keeping us ahead of the curve!</p>
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		<title>By: David Cheifetz</title>
		<link>http://www.slaw.ca/2010/01/28/the-future-of-westlaw-a-slaw-canadian-exclusive/comment-page-1/#comment-716087</link>
		<dc:creator>David Cheifetz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 06:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.slaw.ca/?p=16873#comment-716087</guid>
		<description>Coincidentally, apropos your comment about the expert using a free (and we&#039;ll assume less powerful) research program -

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23592&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;NY Review of Books, v. 57, no. 2, Feb 11, 2010&lt;/a&gt;

The Chess Master and the Computer
By Garry Kasparov

&lt;blockquote&gt;In 2005, the online chess-playing site Playchess.com hosted what it called a &quot;freestyle&quot; chess tournament in which anyone could compete in teams with other players or computers. ...

Lured by the substantial prize money, several groups of strong grandmasters working with several computers at the same time entered the competition. At first, the results seemed predictable. The teams of human plus machine dominated even the strongest computers. The chess machine Hydra, which is a chess-specific supercomputer like Deep Blue, was no match for a strong human player using a relatively weak laptop. Human strategic guidance combined with the tactical acuity of a computer was overwhelming.

The surprise came at the conclusion of the event. The winner was revealed to be not a grandmaster with a state-of-the-art PC but a pair of amateur American chess players using three computers at the same time. Their skill at manipulating and &quot;coaching&quot; their computers to look very deeply into positions effectively counteracted the superior chess understanding of their grandmaster opponents and the greater computational power of other participants. &lt;strong&gt;Weak human + machine + better process was superior to a strong computer alone and, more remarkably, superior to a strong human + machine + inferior process.&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;



&lt;blockquote&gt;(emphasis added by me)&lt;/blockquote&gt;



Law is analogous to chess in at least this much. A specific legal issue necessarily has a finite number of valid solutions. Need I say what the analogue to &quot;&lt;em&gt;weak&lt;/em&gt; human&quot; is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coincidentally, apropos your comment about the expert using a free (and we&#039;ll assume less powerful) research program -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23592">NY Review of Books, v. 57, no. 2, Feb 11, 2010</a></p>
<p>The Chess Master and the Computer<br />
By Garry Kasparov</p>
<blockquote><p>In 2005, the online chess-playing site Playchess.com hosted what it called a &#034;freestyle&#034; chess tournament in which anyone could compete in teams with other players or computers. &#8230;</p>
<p>Lured by the substantial prize money, several groups of strong grandmasters working with several computers at the same time entered the competition. At first, the results seemed predictable. The teams of human plus machine dominated even the strongest computers. The chess machine Hydra, which is a chess-specific supercomputer like Deep Blue, was no match for a strong human player using a relatively weak laptop. Human strategic guidance combined with the tactical acuity of a computer was overwhelming.</p>
<p>The surprise came at the conclusion of the event. The winner was revealed to be not a grandmaster with a state-of-the-art PC but a pair of amateur American chess players using three computers at the same time. Their skill at manipulating and &#034;coaching&#034; their computers to look very deeply into positions effectively counteracted the superior chess understanding of their grandmaster opponents and the greater computational power of other participants. <strong>Weak human + machine + better process was superior to a strong computer alone and, more remarkably, superior to a strong human + machine + inferior process.</strong></p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>(emphasis added by me)</p></blockquote>
<p>Law is analogous to chess in at least this much. A specific legal issue necessarily has a finite number of valid solutions. Need I say what the analogue to &#034;<em>weak</em> human&#034; is?</p>
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